Can I hazard a guess that the people making these critiscisms of Anky are American? European dressage training is very different to American dressage training in my eyes. They are starting to catch up with us, but only because they use German-bred horses and German trainers.

I dare you to name all the horses you have ever ridden.

I tried Dressage once, on a trained horse and it was so hard to do, the horse would respond but i had to make sure every command was distinct from any other, it was great fun tho

Joules x

Let me get this straight, YOU think the people criticising Anky and other users of Rollkur are disgusting? People engage in so called "Anky bashing" based on the hard evidence that her training methods are cruel and abusive. She is high profile and in a fantastic position to set a positive example - but chooses not too. I'm sure the criticism of strangers causes her less pain than Rollkur causes her horses.

How you can imagine any animal lovers could condone your actions is beyond me - in my opinion (and its an opinion that is growing, worldwide) you are the disgusting ones, trying to justify your actions forcing horses into an unnatural and painful position for the sake of a better contact, a prettier outline or better control.

Bottom line, if you can't control the horse effectively without relying on learned helplessness induced by physically abusing your horses and placing them in a position where they are effectively blind, then you should be riding a different horse. Or not riding at all maybe.

People used to think chasing foxes for miles acroos country to be ripped apart by hounds was fun, and ok. Now its illegal. Hopefully in the not too distant future what you are doing won't be ok or legal anymore either.

The majority of people I have spoken with who are in opposition to Rollkur are in fact British (though I have seen blogs etc in French which are also vehemently anti-rollkur), so that doesnt back up the European / American training divide. Several British trainers stand in opposition to it as well, but the media is reluctant to publish their comments for fear of legal repurcussions I believe. I think the pro / anti rollkur debate is causing a huge split in the dressage world - one which may already have been occuring with the growing divide between more modern dressage and the classical principles. Rollkur seems to fall squarely into the 'modern' dressage as I have never heard of any classical training which advocates the use of such a tool or would condone it's use for the purposes of 'carriage' or control. The amount of press coverage currently being devoted to this is interesting too - I was particularly interested in the Power and Paint story recently, where Coby van Baalen was quick to say that the horse was not worked like that for more than a few seconds, and it was due to a mistake. If she is practising rollkur, why the shame? Why not stand up and say so and explain why?
Regarding the veterinary aspect - rollkur has not really been in widespread use long enough for vets to build an accurate picture / body of research of what damage it may be causing. Personally Id rather be safe than sorry.

I'm a Kiwi living in the UK and am totally against rolkur as are most of the people that I know.

I'm against anyone that rolkurs their horse not just Ms Van Grunsven.

Physios, chiros and osteos are ALL saying that rolkur is causing problems. Gerd Heuschmann, a vet, is saying that rolkur is wrong. Top classical trainers are saying that rolkur is wrong.

But most importantly look at the horses, look at their expressions and look in their eyes. THEY are telling us that rolkur is wrong.

If you have to dominate a horse using rolkur then you shouldn't be riding that horse.

Jo

Please don't assume we haven't 'fully read every post' just because we've only chosen to comment on this one.

You say you have never dominated any horse you rode.... maybe you should look in a dictionary and check what that word means . Rollkur (or any method of forcing the horse's head behind the vertical, whatever you choose to call it) causes pain and makes the horse effectively blind so they are completely submissive and dependant on you. In every dictionary I checked, that equates to domination by the human.

You say your horse Gipsy is perfectlycapable of being cool and calm.... but then completely contradict yourself by stating that noone could control him in a 'charged atmosphere' You believe you have to use Rollkur to relax him, but in fact (as any trained psychologist or behaviourist could tell you) that isn't relaxation, its learned helplessness.... another sign of an animal being dominated.

In your previous posts you state that some of the top riders in question are clearly using Rollkur well and properly as demonstrated by their ability to control strong, hot horses and produce amazing tests beyond the abilities of other riders with less ability or who dio not uses Rollkur. This to me simply underlines the POV expressed by myself and others that if a person cannot control a horse effectively without using Rollkur, then they should be riding a different horse. It simply isn't a convincing argument I'm afraid.
them.

I will admit I am convinced Rollkur is a brutal and inhumane practice which cannot, and should not be defended. BUT, I would have a little more respect for your position if your arguments were more consistent, less self-contradictory and just occasionally acknowledged that the horses in question are living breathing beings who feel pain and fear, not just tools to do a job.

Please don't assume we haven't 'fully read every post' just because we've only chosen to comment on this one.

You say you have never dominated any horse you rode.... maybe you should look in a dictionary and check what that word means . Rollkur (or any method of forcing the horse's head behind the vertical, whatever you choose to call it) causes pain and makes the horse effectively blind so they are completely submissive and dependant on you. In every dictionary I checked, that equates to domination by the human.

You say your horse Gipsy is perfectlycapable of being cool and calm.... but then completely contradict yourself by stating that noone could control him in a 'charged atmosphere' You believe you have to use Rollkur to relax him, but in fact (as any trained psychologist or behaviourist could tell you) that isn't relaxation, its learned helplessness.... another sign of an animal being dominated.

In your previous posts you state that some of the top riders in question are clearly using Rollkur well and properly as demonstrated by their ability to control strong, hot horses and produce amazing tests beyond the abilities of other riders with less ability or who dio not uses Rollkur. This to me simply underlines the POV expressed by myself and others that if a person cannot control a horse effectively without using Rollkur, then they should be riding a different horse. It simply isn't a convincing argument I'm afraid.
them.

I will admit I am convinced Rollkur is a brutal and inhumane practice which cannot, and should not be defended. BUT, I would have a little more respect for your position if your arguments were more consistent, less self-contradictory and just occasionally acknowledged that the horses in question are living breathing beings who feel pain and fear, not just tools to do a job.

Please don't assume we haven't 'fully read every post' just because we've only chosen to comment on this one.

You say you have never dominated any horse you rode.... maybe you should look in a dictionary and check what that word means . Rollkur (or any method of forcing the horse's head behind the vertical, whatever you choose to call it) causes pain and makes the horse effectively blind so they are completely submissive and dependant on you. In every dictionary I checked, that equates to domination by the human.

You say your horse Gipsy is perfectlycapable of being cool and calm.... but then completely contradict yourself by stating that noone could control him in a 'charged atmosphere' You believe you have to use Rollkur to relax him, but in fact (as any trained psychologist or behaviourist could tell you) that isn't relaxation, its learned helplessness.... another sign of an animal being dominated.

In your previous posts you state that some of the top riders in question are clearly using Rollkur well and properly as demonstrated by their ability to control strong, hot horses and produce amazing tests beyond the abilities of other riders with less ability or who dio not uses Rollkur. This to me simply underlines the POV expressed by myself and others that if a person cannot control a horse effectively without using Rollkur, then they should be riding a different horse. It simply isn't a convincing argument I'm afraid.
them.

I will admit I am convinced Rollkur is a brutal and inhumane practice which cannot, and should not be defended. BUT, I would have a little more respect for your position if your arguments were more consistent, less self-contradictory and just occasionally acknowledged that the horses in question are living breathing beings who feel pain and fear, not just tools to do a job.

Anyone which uses a rollkur should be shot and their horses retired to a loving home. But prior to this the owner should be subjected to a humanversion of the rollkur, thereafyer feeling the pain and discomfort which the horse feels! So should we start with you!!!!!

Interesting comments!!!!!!!!!!!!